CVGM.net - Chiptune, Retro & Video Game Music

UPGRADES
---------------

There is still relatively low number of compilations in our DB which means it won't take too much time to enter new info for all of them if some new columns become available for selection.

While people may like both demo scene music and video game music, it is less likely they want to have them mixed when they are looking for something. So the good thing to add here would be either a chackbox or drop-down selection that would set each compilation as either:
1. Demo/scene music
2. Game Music/OST

Of course, the page would not have to be split into two links, there could be general selection on top of Compilations page that would display either one or the other, or both like the current version for people that want to se it that way.


Another thing to consider would be adding VGMdb link. Sure, we now attach it to every single song which may appear on multiple soundtracks, but it would be more logical to use that number to assign VGMdb id to actual game soundtrack.


And my personal wanna-see-it-added thing would be that albums have their rating. Not that users can rate the album per se, but album has the list of tracks, each containing rating. Those tracks that are rated should be calculated to an average and that value should be used for album rating. That rating could be visible in compilations page next to album just as it is next to a song.


CHANGES
-------------

Compilations contains fields which makes you think this page was supposed to contain only CD albums or soundtracks. We use it not only for game OSTs but also for game music in general, to group them by platform and name. As such, info like bar code does not seem relevant at best. Not only because there are so many releases of the same game, but because there are more releases of the same soundtrack just as well. And if we;d use bar code, then we should just as well add two identical soundtracks with different barcodes. Seems like obsolete field to me, imho.


When we create compilation, we can add number of discs, but not add tracks to the discs. Ah well, it doesn't matter, that would only complicate things anyway. But it would be nice to have numbering. That way we could ad info saying "Disc 1: tracks 1~18, Disc 2: tracks 19~47" and user wouldn't have to count I'll see if that fix is doable by changing theme's css when I start working on it.


GUIDELINES
----------------

There's been all kind of entries and it felt like anarchic list at first, especially in naming. I've fixed most of them (didn't touch demoscene albums, those can be added in any way, I guess) according to my logical guidelines since there aren't any in the F.A.Q. section.

Here's how I am using naming convention for game music compilations (there may be exceptions, of course, but in 99.9% cases, this should work just fine)...

1. GAME MUSIC

When music is either ripped from the game or found elsewhere but not from the original soundtrack, then entry would be like:

Title: GAME_TITLE (e.g. "Turrican")
Cover: any actual game cover front
Listing: alphabetically

In case where game exists on multiple platforms (assuming they don't sound the same like, say PS3 or PC or Xbox 360), entry would be like:

Title: GAME_TITLE (PLATFORM) (e.g. "Turrican (Amiga)")
Cover: any actual game cover front, but only from selected platform
Listing: alphabetically

2. ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACKS

When tracks are from the soundtrack (especially if they are arranged versions and don't appear in the game as such), then because they're much closer to OST then ingame (which may be, say, mono for example, or not extended or with bonus tracks, etc.), it should be like:

Title: GAME_TITLE (OST) (e.g. "Turrican (OST)")
Cover: any actual OST cover front that has the same track listing
Listing: sorted as on the OST

Sometimes original soundtracks have their own subtitles that are not like in the game, so in such cases it would look like:

Title: GAME_TITLE: SUBTITLE (OST) (e.g. "Turrican: Spice Opera (OST)")
Cover: any actual OST cover front that has the same track listing
Listing: sorted as on the OST

And sometimes different releases of the same soundtrack may have different tracklist, in which case all should be added, but variation should be visible in the title as well, like:

Title: GAME_TITLE (OST, version) (e.g. "Turrican (OST, Japanese release)")
Cover: any actual OST cover front that has the same track listing
Listing: sorted as on the OST


Anyway, that's my input on the subject. Any thoughts or further guidelines are most welcome

You don't need to take compilations so seriously
CVGM just has compilations as an extra just like having screenshots and youtube videos to the songs. But of course if you want to spend time on doing proper compilations then you are allowed to do so.
Compilations can also be your favourite songs and not from a certain game or demo.. for example like "Mat's favourite Amiga songs" or "Mat's best moment in gaming songs"

And also when doing compilations of music ripped from OST CD's so might not all music be uploaded here as you should only upload the good songs... for example i tend to avoid the "boss music" from the games i upload as they usually is boring. And when not all songs are not uploaded then maybe another name than the actual OST name should be used?

But deciding wich songs that are too boring to upload is difficult... there might be someone that actually like them.. you dont know that... so.. maybe this is a discussion for a seperate thread

Hm, if Compilations section is as you claim it to be, then I probably won't bother working on it at all. I thought (as Fish also noted) that every game should have its compilation, and multiplatform games with different music per platform, multiple compilations. I was following that "rule".

Basically it should be a quick way to find all tracks for a game you are looking for, not remixes or whatnot, but actual game tracks, and for all platforms. Hm, but now you made me skeptical about this whole thing.

Don't want to put my effort into building something that doesn't have any future or is so loosely defined. Thanks for your comment

Well.. actually i don't know exactly what Fishguy wants with the compilations... but i do know he is encouraging the use of tags.. alot... and tags is used to grouping songs just like you want (sorted by original game or remixes).

I have always had the feeling compilations was not so important though... but tags are important.. Fishguy will hunt you down if you don't use them ;-)

Strange that Fishguy yet have not replied to this thread?

He commented that he saw the thread and will reply one of these days

But he also told me that he'd like to see every game in compilations, in a perfect scenario case. He didn't put much stress to it or gave the compilations that much importance, but didn't seem to mind if I go and add game music and game OSTs in a fashion I first mentioned in this post.

I may not do that all the time and takes time to create album, sort tracks, make icons and find another cover if it's OST and not game, etc., but in an average I'd say I'm creating 1 compilation per day. More when I am just clearing some platform.

Unfortunately, I don't use tags. Didn't so far. Not sure what I should put in them, game titles? I don't see much sense in adding a year either since each track contains it (if it is known, anyway). Tags can group pretty much anything... I know that compilations can too, but they aren't designed to contain just anything. Sure, I could make compilation "MAT - wishlist" and keep all my wishlisted tracks there instead to play them as an album, but I don't use albums for that. If you fancy that, you go ahead, though

To me, compilations are basically list of games, not tracks. So when people is looking for tracks form some game, he or she should be able to find all related albums there, if they are OSTs or platform variations. For any remixes, he should use the search engine or whatever, tags can work too in such case. But we connect remixes to original track, so maybe Fish can code that they automatically appear sort of indented near original track so user can quickly spot them without any special additional search.

Another thing for compilations is that they contain "buy" link, at least table is made that way, which means that users who want to buy some game OST can check out its music.

One more thing, don't wanna stars a new thread since it is related to compilations...

It would be cool to have the ability for users to send requests (sort of like a poll) where they could name the compilation they'd want to hear.

We could have a day in a month or so where we could playa single (or more) compilation requests by the users. If there'd be more requests than time, they those with most votes could be selected.

Alternative, and easier to handle, would be to make it a poll with predefined options. For example, if options were: Turrican (Amiga), Turrican II (Amiga), Turrican 3 (Amiga) or Turrican (OST), the one with most vote would be played at a designated time. Might be two times on decided day with 12 hours difference so users from any country would have time. That way, the poll would have to be added/coded separately. Might be something that accepts 3-5 choices, and designated playtime, and the poll automatically lasts until the playback day so anyone can (re)vote on it, and the engine would take care of the rest.

Just an idea, and one that would depend on Fish to implement, no doubt.

Does this seem like an overly silly and unnecessary/unwanted idea for this site?

There was some talk a while ago about having "sessions" every friday and thats when compilations are useful... although i think there was only one friday there was a session :-/

If "friday sessions" gets started again then compilations probably will rise in number

About tags... yes some tags are the same info already addd in song info but Fishguy likes them... maybe there is a bigger use for them in the future?

One tag i use and that i think is useful is the "YMdigi" tag i added for Atari ST music that are pure digital... it is a very good way to sort them out.
like this Hard ' n' Heavy - Title

And while adding that tag so does i always add other tags as well.
For arcade games so can the sound chip be used as a tag as arcade games have different sound chips.
example: Hellfire - Ready To Go ~ Captain Lancer

I am sorry, but I don't see a single tag on either of those tracks' pages. Am I missing something, or is it only one-way street, you can see songs from tags, but not the other way around?

You don't see tags?

Here is a screenshot showing how it looks for me (i added the red lines around the tags)

http://www.ym2149.com/tags.jpg

I don't have that on my page. I am using Chrome on MAC now. At home I use Opera on PC, remember something about tags, not this, though. Is this visible only to admins? I am not an admin, so maybe that's why I can't see it.

Ah, nevermind, I have "show tags" checkbox turned off on my account page

I guess if tags are optional, they don't play such a strong role on the site

...a few minutes later...

But I would like to have something that connects all actual game songs like main themes or so without creating compilation for it. Guess tagging them is one way of doing that, since we can't select multiple choices for platform and type where we can select "song" which almost never takes preference over other choices.

...some more minutes later...

Bah, checked them, but as usual, tags are very hard to read and there's so many tags like NameSurname for artists which is more than ridiculous since each artist info page serves basically as such tag.

Too hard to keep track with tags, don't see much purpose in something made for easier navigation for robots, compilations are for now still more human-oriented, imho But also serve different purpose than tags.

Maybe if something changes in the future like consistency or rules for tagging something (and not by doubling already existing info), but for now I am glad that there is turn-off option for tags

I did not kow you could remove tags in the profile settings Maybe Fishguy once said that but i forgotten.
right.. that takes away the motivation for using tags.

But there is one use for tags and that is the "Game Name Link" (Extra Resources) option you get when uploading... what you add as game name link must be added as tag or else so is the game name link not working (it is the joystick icon seen in the song page).

Mat do you see the joystick icon when tags are turned off?

here is a song with "Game name link" as "Extra Resources":
The Elder Scrolls: Arena - Overcast Day Theme

Yes, I see it, though you could've easily test it yourself by switching tags off and then back on

Yes, I don't like such abbreviations as "tesarena" because they really don't tell me much and I can't navigate my way easily or in any way with names such as those. To me, tags are like a sticky tape where you use to put certain tracks on it, and that's about it. Connecting something but without a way to find that tape in any easy way unless you're already on the song page and want to see which other songs are connected.

Albums cover both of those, I think. Not sure if search engine can find tags, but it can't albums, alas. Maybe in the future.

BTW, when you turn off tags, the tag link on the left menu also disappears But joystick is here.

Hi MAT,

I read your post and find it interesting.

1. I am completely backing up vgmdb field being added (or straight moved from song) to the compilation. I always felt song was not a good place for a data belonging logically to compilation.

2. I think platform information for Compilation would be great input and IMHO should not be only part of the name, but separate platform field as it is more flexible to have that data separated and stored in unique form. I will ask Terrasque what he thinks about it conceptually (as it's technically very simple for sure).

3. Voting for compilations. I do not think there are enough users interested in playing whole compilations to perform any real voting. It would end up with one vote sessions and that we can get through OneLiner with "Dudes, can we play Turrican compilation?"

As for new rules I am always cautious. If we make working with the site too complicated people will just stay away. For every new rule "We should now..." there should be part "the advantages are... " (at least twice long as task complication caused by proposed rule ).

I see CVGM more like Open Source society than professionals' workflow. Someone starts a thing, someone adds something else or just fixes because knows more and it goes on. I think it's OK as long as people are not deliberately trolling and we have some smart/willing people to fix usual mistakes. I care if someone wants to join and do something much more than if the work was done the best possible way (but of course it's a big plus if one can do that ). Once people like to stay around it all comes with time without much RTFM'ing.


-Le Goat

Hi,

As nice as it would be to have a compilation for each and every game, it probbably isn't really practical. I added the compilation system more as a means to group songs together in one place, they are not limited to just one game, or one scene prod. The idea is to keep a group of songs in one area that can easily be viewed, and make requests without focus on one specific type of group, although there are some fields for the most obvious.

Tagging is just a method of finding songs faster. If you know specifically what you are looking for, navigating the tag system can get you there fast.

VGMdb links can probbably be added to the Generic Base Links system in the Admin profile, which allows an administrator to add new ones as needed, though I don't think its a good idea to have every DB under the sun there. I would need to look at code to check if its compatible with compilations, though I don't see why it couldn't be done. Ill look at the code when I have a bit of free time. Work sucks!

For now, focus on getting the content of the songs up to par. Each song should link to a screenshot as well as/optionally a video clip, and perhaps a couple of tags. Screenshots are re-useable and can be re-linked to each other multiple times. Many users turn off YouTube due to bandwidth reasons, so at least 1 screen is always nice. Soon I will add code that even non-logged users can see them (screenshots).

As long as the other info is correct, then adding it to a compilation later shouldn't be an issue. Don't feel like you have to do it to every song. Ill normally fiddle with songs in the queue/history adding the same info when im feeling like slacking a bit at work. Hoping to get some time at work soon to start uploading again soon as well.

Mat.. i used "tesarena" only for the game name link option, you are not supposed to see the tag.. only the joystick icon

Stefan: But tags are searchable (well, at least you can list them if you don't have it turned off), so "tesarena" doesn't tell user which tracks he can expect to find under that tag, because "tes" part in the word can mean anything


Fish: You should really fix so that linking (already uploaded) images to other songs should require approval if done by regular users. If someone decides to make a mess on this site, he can easily start connecting any image to any song and that would really be hard to track down and fix.


Goat: Voting for compilation is not necessary indeed. It would be better if compilation would make an average rating of each of its tracks.


Fish & Stefan: So, about compilations, are you saying it's okay if I create compilation called "Top #25 CVGM tracks (MAT)" and put my top 25 tracks in it and update it form time to time? Later there can be many such compilations where only username would differ ;))


Fish (site updates): When selecting source for the track, everything is mutually exclusive, you cannot select more choices but only closes one. But for example, there is "Song" option which for me means something that has lyrics, but I can never select that because options like "Game" or "Soundtrack" has bigger priority to select it.

One more thing about selecting multiple artists. The field shows like 3 rows or so and scrolling it a lot of time consuming, especially when the entire soundtrack has 2 or more artists. That field should be made a bit bigger. I can't type in artist's name to quickly jump to it because that will deselect any previously selected artist.

Mat.. "tesarena" is only for the "Game Name link" you are not supposed to see the tag or search it... just click the joystick icon.

and don't click on tags you don't know what it is ;-)

"Song" for me is something taht is not anything of the other options.... basically just a song that is spread by the author. I have a vauge memory i asked Fishguy about this.. and i think he replied it was ok to do as i did.. or else i would not have continued with it
(i used it for many songs in the "Yamaha XG" platform)

And the 3 row artist selections is very annoying, i really hope Fishguy fixes that
I want to be able to select multiple artist on the upload page already.

If I am not supposed to see the "tesarena" tag, then how am I supposed to search for games that are connected to that tag or add more titles to the same tag? Or even to know if tag connecting Arena games exists or not?

What is the purpose of tag listing page on the left menu (currently not visible to me because I have them turned off) if we aren't supposed to click on any of the listed tags?

You are not supposed to search for "tesarena"... only see the joystick icon and click that.

But I need to be able to search for that joystick then, no? Ordo I need to be one of of tesarena songs in order to use joystick to see other connected songs? Meaning I cannot find it unless I am already on that very song

And what about that Tags link on the left menu, what's it for then? How do you use that?